Shashi Kiran: Hi, and welcome to another interesting edition of the Aryaka Dreamers and Doers podcast, where we invite part leaders and practitioners from all over the world, to come share their views and best practices. I'm your host Shashi Kiran, and I'm very privileged to have with me today, Balaji Aravamuthan, who's the global CIO of UPL, as our featured guest. He's joining us all the way from Mumbai, which is both the financial as well as the film capital of India. UPL Bollywood. UPL, formerly known as United Phosphorus Limited. It's an Indian multinational company that manufactures chemicals of all kinds and also offers crop protection solutions for agriculture. We're also very proud to have them as a customer of Aryaka Networks. With that, Balaji, welcome to the show and thank you for joining us.
Balaji Aravamuthan: Thank you Shashi, it's my pleasure.
Shashi Kiran: When we had this discussion before, I realized that you are this very versatile part leader tech practitioner who can really talk about a variety of different topics. And so, for purposes of this episode, we said we will really discuss this notion of global workforce trends. So keeping that in mind, let's start off first by you talking a bit about UPL and your role there.
Balaji Aravamuthan: Yeah, sure. I think with the new purpose of OpenAg, UPL is striving for sustainability in agriculture. I think we moved a long way from what we were before to what we are now today. We are at present the fifth largest crop protection company globally, with a revenue of 5 billion or more. We are at present in 138 plus factories and around 90% access to the global market. I think that's where the key is. And my role is very simple. My role as a global CIO is to align technology for business purpose, as simple as that. I'm constantly striving to make leaders and in that journey, I'm fortunate to be associated with so many leaders. And when leaders are there, your job is a little secure, and that is what I'm enjoying at present Shashi.
Shashi Kiran: Well Balaji you're the first global CIO who I've spoken to, who said his role is very simple, so there must be something that you are doing that's right. In general, I've looked at your career and I've seen that you're a chartered accountant by education, but you're an information technologist by profession. In other words, you made the switch from numbers to bits and bytes. So what was that journey like?
Balaji Aravamuthan: Yeah, you can say that, I'm a misguided bird also. What is important is, when I completed my chartered accountancy, I realized that technology is going to be everywhere. And I was getting in energy when I was doing some projects on technology. Then I realized that, okay, why don't I do this? And I also realize that there were so many jargons surrounding technology, and there are so many people who are talking on technology without understanding the technology. So I felt that, okay, why don't I start from scratch to understand bits and bytes of technology and also travel from there on each and every place so that I can talk to business people in business language, and I can talk to technology people in technology language. I tried to play the role of a sort of an interface between these two. And then that is making me even kicking today.
Shashi Kiran: That's a very interesting journey because I do know some technologists are allergic to finance and the other way around, and you really need a good interface sometimes to simplify things. So Balaji, your title itself has the role of global in it, and I know your role has a global mandate, but I thought we could perhaps start off with some trends in India. And you're obviously in Mumbai.
India, as we know, has one of the highest populations of young demographics in the world. Many of whom are very tech savvy and driven really by apps. So when you look at this young crowd, this huge workforce, how do you see technology adapting to their needs? What kind of impact are you seeing their expectations have on the traditional enterprise? And as a CIO, do you do anything for this Gen Z, Gen Y workforce, if you will?
Balaji Aravamuthan: Yeah, I think Gen Z is the most appropriate one and I have two of my own. Okay, so let me start from there as a father. I agree, they are far more tech savvy and driven by apps. And let us face it - we have more to learn from them in that context. And they are also undergoing tremendous pressure compared to what we have experienced at our time.
This new workforce are highly knowledgeable, demanding, and at the same time easily get bored. It's interesting to know how they're selecting a particular thing. For example, if I ask them, what do you like? Probably you will say that, okay, I like this, I don't like this. Okay. But they go into serious elimination. First, they will tell what they don't like and then they'll get into what they like. I think that's how I figured it out, how Gen Z is playing, their dynamics.
It's not right or wrong, but this is how that they are tuned, I could say that. And a typical enterprise, we have to have the combinations of all types of people and it's important. And I get more energy when I talk to all Gen Z people. We cannot afford to manage them in a traditional way. And it's around digitalization. And also a big gap between internal employee and an external consultant are becoming thinner and thinner as we progress on. The problem resolutions can happen from anywhere. And any can work from home today, actually really proved to be very successful. I believe we are moving from full employment to part-time employment.
And that is why Gen Z has now started asking so many right questions. How may I associated with the right purpose. It's exciting. It's important that we need to guide them appropriately. This gig employment is helping the organization and also in due diligence, right? We are also living, and then you say that, okay, these the problem, and come and do these things, come, then solve the problem and then go. So you may not have to have the traditional mindset of the employer and the employee relationship anymore.
Hence, I would say that we are at the inflection point of defining the new workforce, and the word “employee” may vanish, period. The word “consultants” may vanish, period. Probably we will say that, okay, what is the job? And what is the responsibility? And there are so many platforms that are going to evolve the world. That's what I foresee in the near foreseeable future, Shashi.
Shashi Kiran: Wow. You really packed a lot of different, dense starts into that and I could dissect each one of them, Balaji. But there were a couple of things that you mentioned that I thought were very pertinent.
One was the fact that you said you're also learning from the Gen Zs, which meant it wasn't a one way street, right? I think as an enterprise, you need to accommodate their expectations, their needs as much as you're trying to bring them into your mode of thinking. And it's a two way street. The second thing that you mentioned, that deeply resonated with me, was this notion of purpose driven. I think it's a question of associating one's identity and purpose, and then looking at a job that makes sense and is more fulfilling that way.
My dad was in the bank. He joined the bank and he retired from the bank after a 35 or 40 year tenure. They never thought about the jobs and careers in the way that we did. And I can see, I have Gen Zs at my home as well. They kind of mirror what you talk. So it's very interesting because you also mentioned about the boundaries blurring. And I see that in the context of businesses, as well as consumers, right? There is this notion of instant gratification, on demand, that as a consumer, we started to expect, and that may be also reflected in Gen Zs.
So as a CIO, how are you factoring in those expectations? The instant gratification, how do you bring much more maturity into all of these processes?
Balaji Aravamuthan: Instant gratifications, it should be a natural process, right? You should not trust that. As I said before I learning, because when you unlearn certain things, probably you are open to new ideas and new thought. And young generations are with so many new thoughts and ideas, right? I think we need to do that. Since I talked about the gig employment, let me give you an industry-specific examples.
Look at the way that our own industry is undergoing this type of struggle because of COVID. Look at the retail industry, the type of struggle that they are undergoing. And there are many, many technologies, which are struggling.
And when we are all struggling with those fundamentals, then the question will be, how we can reduce that fixed cost, right? And how can we make more and more variable costs towards it? So now I'm just wearing the hat of Charted Accountancy. You need to bear with me for that. When fixed cost needs to get reviews and then when we are associating that with purpose-driven.
"This is my problem, this is one that I'm going to solve, and this is what today that I'm addressing. Who can help me in solving this?" And that makes it. And the Uberization of the world is what? This is this exactly what has happened in Uber set up, right? You take people and what they typically want is the platform, right? The car is owned by somebody. The driver is somebody else and the technologies, it be the entire stuff. And the people may come on the day to day and say, "I don't want to work. And I want to spend some more time on this."
And then they can go on and go their work. The same thing can happen in every organization. I think we are heading towards that inflection point is what I'm referring to, right? And need is the mother of invention. And this is the problem statements that we have. And this is the solution that we could possibly have, probably this time that we need to knit this together. And then this will pave the way for a new way of living, a new way of employment. That's what I could foresee, as I perceive it. A little Nostradamic, but I'm just sharing my point of view, Shashi.
Shashi Kiran: That's very forward thinking and at the same time very relevant to the here and now. It's an interesting paradox. So Balaji, I think you talked about this “Uberization,” which is essentially the consumerization of the enterprise in some ways, but we're also seeing... There's so much information sharing that's happening with a variety of social media platforms.
Everybody's personal life. What they do is out there for everybody else to see. And this Gen Z is even more open and transparent about a lot of things. When you bring that into the workplace where privacy, data protection, are all so very important, what kind of government's models do you actually start to put into place to accommodate this balance of having to share information and yet protect the crown jewel?
Balaji Aravamuthan: Yeah. It seems a big topic, right? When we are challenging status quo, when we are in that paradigm shift that we are talking about and so many data... data is, how many times we must have heard of this data is 21st century, right? So when we are in that zone... We have two, three dimensions with this clearly coming out. One dimension is, what are the new possibilities? Whatever the earlier people considered as so-called EMIS, or so-called reporting, is no longer relevant now.
And we are almost on time, every time. It is dynamically changing and what you consider as leader in one particular point of time, may not be later, probably, three years down the line. That's the shorter lifecycle that we are anticipating. If data is going to be so much powerful, there is also a lot of regulations and then privacy regulations are also coming up.
Almost every country in the world now with privacy laws in place. So the key here is where is that trade off, okay? Which data is right data for the right purpose, and which data is right data for wrong purpose. Sometimes people can misuse the data. What we have seen during the election time. We have seen so many incidents around it. So we need to be mindful.
How will we use the right data in the right time so that it helps the humanity for good? I think that's where we need to be very much with the "purpose-driven" I was talking about before is also coming in now, right? You'll see. We start misusing the data and the data is going to help only fuel and which is going to help in the disparities across the globe. I think that's something we should avoid, right?
So, these are all the languages available today, but we need to see to that, that we are using the right data for right purpose. And we also respect the privacy of the individuals and also respect the privacy of the organizations and also privacy of the society and also privacy of the country and privacy of the globe as a whole. There is a lot to learn from the Gen Z in that context.
And also we need to leave our footprints properly when we are giving to the next generation. It should not so happen that we completely screw the entire world and that they end up with so many new problems. That's not the right thing. While this technology, this data-driven orientation and the possibilities are abundant, unless we put some right framework, right thought process and right governance model then probably, it will be more like a car with only accelerators and no brakes.
So we are bound to get dashed as soon as possible. So we need to be mindful. There are many things which is coming up responsible here. Responsibility, and how will I make purpose on hear to come on board, et cetera, et cetera. So that's still, in a way, theoretical and people are using it only for forum to speak about it, but they are still not putting that into action.
But I believe it is heightened that we need to put that in an actionable item. And that way, the future and our environment will be much better. One thing, Corona, I think caught everyone off guard overseas too. We need to stay humble and also see to that that, how can we make the next generation better? How will I make this world a better living place? I think these are all the things which is really there. And if we are able to use technology for this right purpose and what that we are attempting, I think we are good to go. That's what I would believe Shashi.
Shashi Kiran: Yeah. It's a mindset change also in some ways, as much as it's a technology shift.
Balaji Aravamuthan: I agree.
Shashi Kiran: Segway to what I was planning to ask next, which is really about this whole notion of the pandemic and how it has impacted. CIOs such as yourself, who've been going through it for a year, and as we are recording this particular podcast, I see the second wave happening, with Mumbai being the epicenter in India, so how are you dealing with this and what kind of changes did you need to make to look at it as business-as-usual scenario?
Balaji Aravamuthan: We all know safety is first, but I think it's important. We need to behave responsibly. You're right. Second wave is already on. And I could see more and more number of cases and then hospitals are full. People are really... while we do have the way of hope around vaccinations, but the end should quickly meet the means, right? I think if it's not, then we may have some disaster on the way between, it will be mindful.
So to that extent, safety first and everyone understands and we need to be responsible in that context. So naturally, we are made the entire essential operation. So we are coming into the essential categories. To that extent, we are fortunate to be in this industry at this particular point of time. Unlike others, apart from the strict what's mostly happened because of pandemic. But it also makes us more... Because we are coming out of the essential category, which means that we need to ensure that the essentials are given to the right people.
So we talked about sustainability, we talked about food assurance, we talked about scarcity. So those things can happen, only if we are ensuring our work properly. So what we have done is effectively, from the 40 manufacturing locations across the globe with almost 130 offices across the globe, suddenly that's become almost, you know, 20,000 offices across the globe, right?
We have 20,000 people who are working, including employee and consultants put together, which means we also need to be mindful in this war-like, we call this disaster management - sustainable disaster management, if I can use that word - that really helped us proceed to that, how will I how will I make people accessing anywhere, anytime, but at the same time, they are also getting security in the right manner? While we are working all day, the hackers are working double the work all night. So we need to be mindful of that.
I'm not sure why they are doing like this, but it's not the time for any actors to work on. But the reality is, the hackers are working, so we need to ensure that we protect our own people in such a way. How will we make our fundamental operations? But it's really easy to put this philosophical statement, but very difficult to put that in practice.
For example, there may be so many dynamic changes within the country, within the state. You've talked about testing, and within that locations there are they're many rules, and regulations are getting changed and the government is taking those types of calls. And we need to be open enough to adapt to that particular change and still able to achieve that sustainability, what we are looking for, which means we can have global governance, but we need to have distributor empowerment, right?
I think that's the new architecture that we are heading towards as a globe. If you are in the position to do that, and then local empowerment will wake the local people to take the right decision, which is right for the organization. And also subject to the overall the law of the land, which is at that particular point. There are so many dynamic changes that happened. Suddenly, they may say that, okay, from six to six tomorrow, you cannot operate.
So if you are getting into those type of scenarios, then we need to... we cannot put that in our global policy and then say that all global policies says that. Since things are dynamically changing, how much frugal can we be and how dynamic can we be and how much of an empowered organization can we be? These are all the opportunity before us and understand this situation much more better, and then understand, what is the best way to reach the desired destination?
What is the earliest point of time in the given constraint that we are talking about? And it is altogether different supply chain network problem, manufacturing problem. How do we ensure that all the physical safety and securities are getting addressed? How are we ensuring the social distancing norms and other things are there? Is there any way that I can use technology to ensure those step out things can be done in a quick manner?
All this thought process has to be embedded in this global policy with local empowerment. I think that's where that we are heading towards. Fortunately last one year, we were able to do. And since we have been preparing for this as an organization, right, I think this is more like an acid test for us, to pass through as we speak. That we were able to achieve whatever you want to achieve for this last year. And also we made people realize that... Technology war made us move from important to vital.
I think that's what COVID has done. We are now in the vital zone which makes each and every set of things that could be addressed in that manner it is supposed to be addressed. And thereby, it's more like oxygen for the organization to go through, and that's something that we are trying to do. So to that extent, we are becoming double essential services. Already To the company's an essential service, and we are essential service to the company. So we are an essential, essential services, if I can say that, Shashi.
Shashi Kiran: Yeah. That's very well put. And I think there are a lot of people that depend on companies such as yourselves, particularly since you're focused on agriculture. And, it's a huge influence that you end up having, in terms of the technology and the population.
You mentioned something that really fascinated me. And that was really about how a few offices went into becoming 20,000 offices. Essentially every employee became an office of one. And I want to, kind of, tie this to this philosophy of technology and human collaboration, if you will, right? In some ways we're investing in technology to allow humans to collaborate better.
But then what I also see, in tying this back to our Gen Zs, is the more technology, the mobile phones they have, they all become independent unit, atomic units of one, instead of collaborating in person. They're much better collaborating virtually. So how do you see this panning out over the next little while? Human relationships at stakes with technology or you see it allowing better human collaboration?
Balaji Aravamuthan: Yeah, I think we should not get mixed up with these two words. There is communication and there is relationship. While technology certainly helps in communication, but it may not help with relationships. Philosophically speaking, as long as guidance are under our control, we can continue to be human. And it is certainly dangerous if you are under the control of [inaudible]. We all agree with that. Technologically, we can certainly connect, but it is up to us humans to ensure the relationship.
No technology can guarantee relationship. Emerging tools that are enablers. And if you use them, even when we are physical proximity, then we lose the sense of relationship. I've seen people who are sending messages from bedroom to hall. Is that the way the technology is supposed to be used? As long as we understand the power of technology and we use it with the right intent, I think we are good to go.
We should not forget, we are all social animals first and not social media animals, if I can say that. The core essence of social animal thinking should not be missed. And that bondage is only making us much more stronger. And, today, if you asked me in reality, people are everywhere, so technology is certainly helping them. Time zone is no more a challenge. You and I are conversing across the geographies as we speak. So it's a great tool and great enabler.
And we should use it to enhance our relationship, which technology cannot do. Only humans can do, right? I think we need be ensured and understand these two difference between communications and relationship. And then if you are able to put the right impetus in the right manner, I think we are good to go. I'm not cynical yet for technology, because there are so many things I recommend about technology. I'm the one who likes to embrace technology to the fullest, but at the same time, nothing can beat human relationships. We should not miss that call, is what I would say as a topic here.
Shashi Kiran: That was very well articulated, Balaji. And I think we got the quote for the podcast itself and you talked about us being social animals and not social media animals, which is very, very true. But before we wrap up, I kind of want to look back on your career.
You've obviously been at several big name companies where you instituted change and brought in several new things during your career. SAP, Piramal, Reliance. So what still excites you? Are you kind of bored with technology? Are you still excited with technology? Where do you stand?
Balaji Aravamuthan: Yeah, it's true, I'm excited. And I was told, even today, every month I ensure that I do have some certifications. Not that I need to prove a point to somebody else, but it makes me relevant. There are many inflection points in my career. Now look, in the technology, and I'm sure you are also the technology space, let me articulate - on an average every four to five years, there is going to be one lifecycle within a technology.
In my experience, I could see that I must have gone from six or seven lifecycle within the technology. In an ever changing technology space, every one of us can only be a student. I'm not an exception, right? Continuous learning still excites me. We are reaching towards the culmination of connected, integrated platforms of man and machines. You name it, there are so many things bombarded in this current day context.
And there are many things are old technology space, whether it's on mobility, whether it is on the machines or IOTs. And there are so many things to learn and it makes us so humble because there is a lot to learn. And today, if you ask me, am I bored? No way! As long as I'm a student, I can never be bored. I can assure you that. Continuous learning is my continuous excitement, that much I can tell you that Shashi.
Shashi Kiran: Well, Balaji, thank you for that. People who are students for life are always an inspiration for me. We covered a lot of ground today, right? And I really enjoy the conversation. And as a follow-up, I would love to have you in for another segment where we could discuss some more exciting technologies that are emerging around automation, AI, and the impact on society. If you're game for that?
Balaji Aravamuthan: Sure.
Shashi Kiran: So we would certainly allow hosting you for that segment. Thank you again for your time today. And folks that was Balaji Aravamuthan, global CIO at UPL. And that's a wrap for this podcast. Thanks for listening.
Balaji Aravamuthan: Thank you Shashi, it's my pleasure. Thank you, bye.
Note: The transcripts of the podcasts may not be fully accurate. Please excuse any grammar and spelling issues.
